10/11/2021
One of the services I provide is transcribing in the archives. Below is something I did earlier this year. It is a transcription of debates held in the Swan River Mechanics Institute in 1854. The first was on racial equality, the second on the death penalty. My 3x Great Grandfather George Lazenby was President of the Institute and chaired the meetings.
Mechanics Institute
Monday May 22 1854
Discussion Class
Present-The Chairman, Librarian, Messrs Johnston, Gaswell?, B Smith, Bond, Inkpen, Mears, Reilly Sen and Junr, Campbell, Manson, M Smith, Skillem?
Mr Farman paid two shillings and sixpence.
Mr Campbell proposed Mr J Snowball as a Member, seconded by Mr Johnston.
When Mr Johnston propose the following subject for discussion-“ Is the alleged essential intellectual inferiority of the cold races correct?’’
The Chairman said that he had made no preparation to open the discussion, regretted that Mr Johnston did not do so, having himself read a little on the subject, but is of opinion their inferiority is correct. Coloured people have not had the same education as the white, but even with such advantages considers they would be inferior as there is a manifest want in the intellectual capabilities, there are exceptions to all rules, and there is no doubt many of the colored race have shown that much intelligent, but in the aggregate the inferiority is evident, and must have facts and not mere assertions to remove this opinion.
Mr Johnston said that it was an important question and one in favour of the coloured race that the nations of antiquity were people of colour and can trace much of our knowledge in Arts and Sciences to those nations, alluded to the Egyptians in their stupendous works the Pyramids, to the Blacks we are indebted for the invention of Letters, system of Arithmetic, and many other magnificent works, all the result of the black man’s intellect, entered into the question at some length and stated, and advanced very interesting Historical facts, used racial of the coloured races possessing very high attainments both in science, literature and war. He said that American Indians were evident as Warriors. ______ their achievements, and those of the East Indies their Architectural knowledge. In Africa some Blacks have established a [blank pages].
Perth Mechanics Institute 12 June 54
Discussion Class
Present-The Chairman, Treasurer, Librarian, Messrs M Smith, Inkpen, Campbell, Mitchell, Nairn, Mews, Munson, Allmond, Lenowns?, Garden, Farmanar and Reilly.
The Chairman read letter to and from the Colonial Secretary in reference to the sum of £50 placed on the Estimates on accord of the Institute.
Mr Michael Smith presented as a donation 3 Books on various subjects.
The Chairman-Proposed that Tenders the invited for the putting of seven shelves for Books, with door fronts in the escapes of the Walls of the Institute-which was Seconded by the Secretary and passed unanimously.
Mr Farmanar handed in a Bill from Mr Walter Padbury for £6.5.8 for Lime livid to the Institute, and notified that Mr Padbury presented the same as a donation.
A vote of thanks was passed to Mr Padbury for this liberal donation, and the Secretary requested to Notify the same to Mr Padbury, as well as to have it published in the Local Journals.
The discussion of the alleged inferiority of the Coloured Races was resumed by
Mr Smith- Who stated he heard nothing advanced to shake his opinion in the inferiority of those races nor does it appear that the Works attributable to them were of the production of the Coloured races-Again referred to the Lordstone? He being known to the Blacks for Centuries; but whenever at the bottom; until known to the Whites-compare the white and Coloured races in reference to coming? Of Space. Shows the superior 80 of the white Man-alluded to the Crystal Palace far surpassing anything in act done by the Coloured races either ancient or Modern Times. All that Mr Johnston has said in favour of the white race he instantly gainsays it and gives preference to the coloured.
Mr Johnstone-Is again sorry to have to correct Mr Smith in reference to the Architectural designs of the Permits, to which he never attributed any such qualities.-Referred to them as to the utility of their constitution in connection with the Cardinal points-Alluded to an Alabaster Coffin made by the Agents, nothing of act was to equal it.-And that the Egyptians practical knowledge of Astronomy equal to ours-All the great buildings of Egypt were the work of the Coloured races, The Munomein? 7 miles in length superior to the Crystal Palace-and History is full of the accounts of the ____of the Coloured races-mentioned the Thalchmate? of India one of the present wonders of the age-demonstrates the ____in _____, in the _____the blood of the Coloured-referred to the Book of Genesis-respecting the Creation of Man-and states it is the opinion of many famous learned Men that there are two created beings-
Mr Campbell- Adhere to his former opinion
Mr Greswell-Contends a white is superior in intellect and Mr Johnston’s argument is far to show this evident superiority.
Mr Leonowns-Has not heard much of the discussion but in what has fallen from Mr Johnston he fully concurs-they are very intelligent native is in the East Indies, was personally acquainted with a Gentleman Parsee, a Ship builder whose work in that branch of Science was Superb, and the natives are ingenuous in works of arts, literature and Science. Their colour it is that makes an unfavourable impression. There is no inferiority of intellect in the Coloured races. Solomon the wisest of all Men was a Coloured Man-and from the East, and God himself spoke from the East-and all tend to show the superiority of the Coloured races.
Mr Nairn-Is in favour of the black races.
Mr Farmanar-Also in favour of the Coloured races.
Mr Fox-Cannot reconcile out Mr Johnstone is one moment in favour of the white and next all ____to the Coloured-and yet selects a passage of Scripture to show that there were two distinct races in whatever Country or at any period are as intellectual as the White, if they had the same moral Cultivation.
Mr Farrelly-What has been said by the different speakers clearly tends to prove that there is no essential inferiority in the Coloured races-Mr Johnston has proved from history (although fighting with both hands) in favour of the Coloured races, four from whence did we desire originally, our Knowledge of Arts, literature and Science-Much of it from the Egyptians Arabs etc-they were not White; and if Climate change the skin, it does not follow therefore that it should change the intellect-it is therefore futile to advance their inferiority they are not _______ so-The Idea of us at the present day is in favour of the Crystal Palace-but with all its grandeur and beautiful illustrations it is far inferior to the Coins in? the formation of the Pyramids referred to Dr Maddox and other travellers who visited them in 1820s-Alluded to the Magnificent Palaces etc of Mexico-they had no white Man to leave marks of Civilisation as war as facetiously applied by Mr Smith to some native tribes in South Australia.
The Secretary-Contended there was no intellectual inferiority in the Coloured races-they are only required to have the mind Cultured when they would show forth in equal proportions with the white race.
Mr B Smith-After all that has fallen from Mr Reilly it only shows more clearly the superiority of the White-for the black requires the intelligence of the white to teach him-Never heard of such a thing as a building of 7 miles long-9/10s of their Cities were squares of three or 4 miles long with a building in the Centre-He never heard of such a thing before. Read of the Seven Wonders of the World, two of which were the great Wall of China and the Pyramids of Egypt-but the greatest of all was talking of 7 Miles of Building Referred to the Physical force of the camp Indies their Rights were officered by Europeans-as to their Sculpture- ____ etc what are they to be compared to the Electrical Telegraphs, Steam Engine etc- Mr Johnston has referred to a fleet of ships shown off before one of the Roman Emperors-why son the ships of those days were mere _____compared to the ships of the present day-There were no buildings ever erected by the Coloured races but could be roofed? by the present race of White Men-the sculptured figures and paintings have been executed from the ____ yes to preserve them.
Mr Johnston-Is again sorry to mark sen will se of the total absence of Mr Smith’s knowledge of the subject under discussion, and however reluctant, to say, would recommend him to read history before he attempts to argue a question which are so fully and clearly demonstrated by history-as the existence and extent of the Monuments referred to broader Herodotus the historian who attests the truth of their great Labyrinths, and cannot see with what _____he speaks so lightly of the Verity of travellers of character who have written on this or any other subject
The Aborigines of South America and the North West part of Australia do not manifest the same intellect as the whites-but international discourse between white and coloured races necessary towards civilisation-adverted to the rise and fall of Empires, Kings and People, and that England now the Seat of Civilisation may in days to come leave nothing of the present grandeur but a vast solitude, where the weary traveller from some distant land they take his stand from bridge of London and view the ruins of this once mighty Empire.
It being 10 o’clock the discussion was adjourned
Approved
G Lazenby, Chairman.
S R M Institute Monday, 19 June 1854
Committee assembled
Present- The Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer,Messrs Johnston, Leonowens, Farmanar & Nairn.
The Chairman opened and read a Tender from Mr Bond in reference to the completion of the Book shelves for the Institute- Proposed to Complete them for £4.1.0.
Resolved- That the Tender of Mr Bond be accepted-no other tender having been received.
Mr Johnston-Notified that in accordance with what he had stated to the Institute about 10 months ago in reference to the “Times Newspaper” that he had written to the Rev J H Gwythers Vicar of Nately Salop- President of the Mechanics Institute there-and then he received a reply by the last Mail from that Revd Gentlemen informing him that the first file of these papers were posted in January last for us-and for which we were to pay a trifling remuneration equal to that of Waste paper. He also called attention again to the desirability of Members delivering lectures themselves, and alluded to the great good done to the Mechanics Institutes in England by the adoption of such measures-and therefore hoped we would no longer be soliciting such favours from Gentlemen however considerate these may be, but that we should look to ourselves as the workingmen do in fatherland.
Mr Leonowens- That the best team this of this meeting are due to Mr Johnston for the interest he has not only taken in this instance of obtaining newspapers from England but also for the energetic zeal he has given hitherto manifested in the furtherance and advancement of the interest of the Institute.
Mr Bond- Highly approved of the hall of what has fallen from Mr Johnston in reference to the Members delivering lectures (if not to the Public at least to those among the Members themselves)-it would be concerning an incalculable boon to the youth of the Colony-and an inducement to young Men to attend closely to the Cultivating of the Mind.
The Chairman (G Lazenby)-acquiesced on the views entertained, but he considered the difficulty would be to get persons of the Institute to come forward and lecture-Many Gentlemen present belonging to the Institute who were quite able to do so-has in his own person and felt quite important for such a task.
Mr Farmanar – Enquired if we had received any Newspapers from New Zealand and Sydney and if we continued sending them to the Mechanics Institutes of these Colonies.
The Librarian-Had received instructions to discontinue if no papers from these Institutes were received by the present mail, none having come he has therefore discontinued them.
Mr Farmanar- That our Papers be sent to the Mechanics Institutes of Hobart Town and Adelaide, and that the Secretary be directed to write to these Colonies-apprising the Secretaries thereof-with a request for an exchange of papers.
Agreed to.
Resolved – That the Chairman and Treasurer prepare plans and specifications for the two rooms in contemplation of er****on.
Discussion Class- Present the aforesaid Committee and Messrs Farmer, G Campbell, R Campbell, and Smith, J Reilly, Bond and Lambley?
The discussion on the alleged inferiority of the Coloured Races was resumed by
Mr Leonowens- In regard of the inferiority of one race from another, it may appear where the Coloured races are debarred from the advantages of education and ______ - ______ inferior in intellectual acquirements to those who have had such advantages-the East Indian have not the means of education as in England-for the absence of the high acquirements desirable in our country-The Native Troops being officered by Europeans no proof of their inferiority intellect-they may be physically so-these Officers are very often inferior in mind to the Native troops they command- many of whom possess a fund of saved knowledge did we but know their language-they are excellent Mathematicians, Astronomers and particularly well versed in the history of their own Country-Physically speaking the English Officers and Soldiers are superior-for there is nothing like the British Bayonet directed with a British hand-There are no British Accountants in any of the Government offices in India-the Hindoo and Parsee who fill many of them arise to very great eminence.
Mr Bond-Has knowledge of the native tradesmen of Singapore comment warrants him to speak highly of them-for he considered that many of them were superior Workmen to himself-they were excellent bricklayers, shoemakers and their work as well executed as by a European-and he considered them as good workmen as London could produce-If we knew their language we would speak more favourable of them.
Mr B Smith- Cannot agree in the opinion of those Gentlemen who preceded him, reference has been made to the tradesmen of Singapore-we have excellent specimens of the Chinese intellect here, as to their tradesmen we have no opinion to offer unless by the articles imported, and if these are closely examined and not fit to be turned off. If surprise should exist, it is in the astonishment of being so well coming from such a quarter for they have neither perspective or design in their works of art as otherwise-it appears we are to judge of the quality of a nation by its Architectural constructions-but this does not constitute _____of mind-what certitude have we let these great Buildings are the production of either the Egyptians or Greeks?
It is contended by some Gentlemen that if the Coloured races were educated they would be equal to us, but in many instances they have had this advantage but notwithstanding they have retrograde-the intellectual acquirements is equal to that of the Women which goes to a certain extent and no further-As to their practical knowledge of Astronomy-I ask is it to be compared with the celebrated Astronomers of the present day-give them every advantage that we possess, and they will still remain inferior to the moral and intellectual greatness of the White Man.
Mr Campbell- Referred to the Creation-all Men proceeded from Adam, and that after the deluge the Natives of the earth were peopled from the Sons of Noah-that through sin men degenerated-and intellect impaired-and barbarous conduct was manifested in many Countries calling themselves civilised as amongst the Africans and other uncivilised nations, and nothing inferior with intellect, mind only requires actuation?
Mr Fox- It is still my opinion that the Coloured races with the advantages we possess of Education would be equal in intellectual acquirements as the white races-gave his explication of a text of Scripture in reference to Man’s Creation, and quoted from the Apostle Paul that all men were of ‘one blood’ claimed is privilege right to express his views on any subject, he was anxious thereby to elicit information from those who are more highly favoured with the benefits of education.
The Chairman- Quite agree with Mr Fox that we all meet here the mutual good-referred to the Proposition and contended that the word ‘essential’ should not form a part thereof-differed from Mr Fox’s interpretation of the passage of Scripture in reference to the creation-the spirit never was created, he believed that the spirit-the soul of man-proceeds from the deity and is part of himself-Europeans were not always superior-but what I contend for is in reference to the present day, that the European is all that is good, that is great and noble-and that his attainments are far eminently above any other race of men- for Polygamy was practised by the Coloured races to such an extent that they have thereby deteriorated in their Mental faculties. Industry cultivates health, in body and mind and Idleness as the contrary effect as ____and destructive to moral energy- though I contend the Coloured races do not give evidence of intellectual attainments-the Chinese and Indians may no doubt be clever, but taking in any Art or Science have shown themselves to be far inferior to our race-they want that intelligence and Civilisation which necessarily constitutes a great and noble mind-with these opinions firmly fixed I beg to propose an amendment ‘that the intellectual inferiority of the coloured races are correct!’
Mr Johnston- To answer the many objections advanced by the Chairman and Mr Smith and wade through such a labyrinth would require more time than was disposed to him- ____with an Exposition of the Chairman’s opinion in reference to the Spirit and Soul of Man- referred to Holy ____- Called attention to the Mohammedan Koran- and the belief of the Hindoos of India- as holding similar views.
Alluded to the inferiority of Races- compared the relative position of the White and Coloured and the manifold advantages he had over the Coloured of the present day-to arrive and attain the highest eminence in history attainments- Read an Extract of a statistic on England in reference to the moral degeneration of its people and showing that at the present day that there are 154 200 unable to write and this in Civilised England- Cork of the inferiority of the mind, he is absence of intellectual acquirements-which is pitiful to contemplate-tens and hundreds of thousands of people who know not A from B buried in an amount of ignorance unparalleled-except amongst the most uncivilised barbarians- Here Mr Johnson entered into a most minute detail of the history of the human race- dwelt upon the anatomical construction of the human body-and reviewed the stupendous Acts of ancient grandeur still extant-the works of the Coloured Man-but note that only his former acquirements Mr Johnston observed-that at the present period the Coloured races do not possess the same high intellectual attainment the White Man does-but the Coloured Man alike with the White has an immortal spirit to be developed like the Angels of God.
The Secretary- That there were Natives more susceptible of cultivation more highly civilised and more enabled by moral culture than others-but that all were alike to freedom and not to be slaves-that no matter the ____the Soul
The Chairman having summed up-and on his amendment being put- ‘that the intellectual inferiority of the Coloured caps races are correct’ - there was only time for it-amendment lost accordingly.
The Chairman having put the Secretary’s Amendment
‘That the alleged inferiority discernible in the coloured races is not an inherent attribute of their nature but the effects of the sterile mind for want of ‘Cultivation’.’
Was carried, only two objecting.
02/10/1854
Mr Hughes opened the Subject for discussion.
‘Is the infliction of Capital Punishment consonant with the principles that should guide a state in the enforcement of the penal system; and as such punishment agreeable to the dictation of justice or consonant to the feelings of humanity?’
And observed that it was a subject for the consideration of Common humanity-did the infliction of Capital punishment deter the evildoer. He must emphatically say-no. Referred to the old penal System where for every _____the value of 10/- proven against the prisoner death was the result-and of a Consequence the infliction of Capital punishment meant death was more common than that at the present day- but ____have the hardihood to say that notwithstanding this severity that it’s punishment deterred others from rapine and Murder-no Sir- prevention is better than Crime- life is sacred-it’s only a legal murder to take away the life of a fellow being by hanging-the ignorant and heartless Murderer is lost to every sense of humanity-then it’s the parental duty of the state to endeavour a reformation which would be more consonant to the Christian healing than the infliction of death- for _____- petty larcenies and other crimes and misdemeanours- which was the awful visitation under the old penal system- Referred to the solitary system adopted in Millbank- Considered perpetual imprisonment is the most severest of punishments-why not adopt its infliction in all cases-it would have the desired effect-to a greater extent than that of instantaneous or legal Murder-and he contended that no single argument can be brought in favour of Capital punishment- We are far behind other Countries in this subject-and and if instances from holy writ the adduced in favour of Capital Punishment I can bring counter texts to prove the fallacy of such.
I will therefore move ‘that the infliction of Capital Punishment is not consonant with the principles of justice-that is not agreeable to the dictates of reason-and that any penal system in which it is included is not based upon sound principles’.
Dr Gray- Preferred the following Amendment
That Capital punishment is in accordance with human reason and also to the dictate of humanity.
In order to support which-and looking upon the same sources of thoughts as that already pursued that Capital punishment had not been a terror to the evildoer- Referred to 1829 when the Masses of the people were inquiring ignore its and without education their intellectual destitution may account in some Measure for the too frequent repetition of Crime- and to deter from such deeds Capital punishment was necessary- at the period in question the Masses of the people he did not the enlightenment and therefore the same sublimity of thought as the present age- a knowing and wilful Murderer deserves death- rebutted in reference to his remarks on holy writ- repudiates the idea of torturing a Man by inches- or would be the consequence in the adoption of perpetual solitary imprisonment- Mr Hughes says life is sacred-but to the Convict he will say-I will not take your life by hanging-but I will put you in perpetual imprisonment where you shall not see the light of day no nor converse with your fellow Man-and there you will remain- I will take your life away by inches- here is humanity. Better to let justice have its course in the infliction of Capital Punishment than to inflict such a Monstrous punishment- I will though contend that if one man takes away the life of another, just as requires, nay demands that the Murderer should lose his life, sympathy may be given to him by those around- but to the cold-blooded Murderer- humanity shrinks at the idea.
Mr Farrelly- Mr Gray’s anticipation of an opposition was a just apprehension-for he certainly was not prepared to hear that there could be men found who would advocate the justification of Capital Punishment- did its infliction deter from Acts of evil- certainly not -then why not abrogate such a law? - The Moral law is thou shalt not kill- Solitary imprisonment is admitted to be the severest penal punishment- this he was considered referable to death- under the penal ______ the Convict would have an opportunity for bitter reflection- and perhaps by a serious and true repentance, making his peace with his offended God.
Alluded to the Ex*****on of the Mannings and Rurk? And referred to the public ____ of England ____show that at the foot of the Gallows the most intolerant immoral and brutal Crimes were committed- Murder itself was all but perfected- with such attested facts as these is he not justified by all law human and divine in saying that it is not consonant with the feelings of humanity to instantaneously by hanging or other decapitation take away that life which is not in the power of Man to restore- that as justice requires the punishment of the evildoer in Common humanity let perpetual Imprisonment be substituted- instead of the Severer Capital Punishment which does not deter under the Gallows from Commission of Acts the Most abominable destruction of all order and subversive of all good Government.
Mr Nairn- is in favour of Capital Punishment- prevention is better than crime-if he will kill he that does so should lose his life in atonement.
Mr B Smith- Must oppose Mr Hughes preposition- in reference to humanity- an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth- Perpetual Imprisonment is not the greatest Capital- while there is life there is hope- and the Murderer who wilfully takes away the life of another in open violation of human and divine law deserves to be visited with the most vigorous punishment-death- but Mr Hughes reasons that to hang is only a legal Murder-not taken immediately- and drawn out by inches until the watched Man ends a Miserable existence in Solitary Confinement- oh but he will have time to repent- what certainty for this avowal is very many instance when ‘Men get out of prison after sentence they recurred to their former vicious habits’- adverted to the old penal system- and enumerated different crimes punishable with death under it-he was no advocate for such wholesale Capital Punishment and then existed- but reserve the infliction of this punishment solely for Wilful Murder.
Mr Johnston- Adverted to the circumstances of a taking away the life of another in that case society places itself in the place of the person Murdered- and demands restitution, and as the Murderer cannot give back that which she has taken away justice must be administered and then maintained- Alluded to the opinions of Johnston and Scott on Capital Punishment- relating several striking occurrences from their observations- one of which was the wife during the poison which she had placed in the gruel- which the ____ ____ was tearing the vitals of her husband- as it was late he would not enter further on the subject- but here was a subject worthy of serious consideration but was an advocate for Capital Punishment.
It being 9:30 the Chairman adjourned the Meeting.
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