Atheists are rarely honest with Christians about their position and even less honest with themselves about their presuppositions. They do not believe that they believe God exists, although scripture says that they "know" God exists. They are compelled, by their very ability to reason, to have no reason to the contrary. However, the darkness of a man's heart if he is not regenerate, goes beyond knowledge in its wickedness. Therefore he suppresses what he cannot mentally deny, being that, the very fact that he is aware that he is not God, and that without God there is no purpose to his existence, he shamefully perpetuates a depraved desire unto a most heinous crime. To deny his creator. And by this, he sears his own conscience as if cauterizing the wound. And after a certain point, which is a sad biblical reality, he goes beyond the point of no return where repentance is no longer possible. When we engage those who openly deny God we must be discerning not to only do so to win the argument by the impossibilty of the contrary, but with the objective as to demonstrate they have no place left to logically stand, other than where they already do. Openly defiant with their fist shaking at the heavens. They will, if they have a knee left to do so, be begging for God's mercy at the revealing of Him who sits at the right hand of God the Father, our Lord Jesus Christ. ----------+ As Dr. Bahnsen articulated so well, they have already lost the debate by even showing up at all. CVTstreetgang - T