10/10/2022
CROSS EXAMINATION IN THE 2019 KAOMA MURDER CASE OF LAWRENCE BANDA
Day two, the state calls three witnesses to testify against Shebby Chilekwa and Mumbi Phiri.
Those called are Monde Nyambe, Chinyama Muti and Dr. Adam Muchelengâanga, a pathologist from UTH.
Verbatim for day two, 5th October, 2022
Prosecution, most obliged your honour, we are ready to proceed
Witness: Monde Nyambe on oath
Prosecution: Tell the Court your full names, what you do, your age and where you live.
Monde: My name is Monde Nyambe, I am 22 years old, I work for Atlanta Prudential as a Clerical officer and I live in Ka Gravel Compound in Mongu Town.
Prosecution: where were you living in 2019 in October?
Monde: Kaoma District.
Prosecution: Address the Court as to what happened in October on the 6th 2019
Monde: when I was coming from Church around 11 hours, I saw a motor vehicle branded UPND, it was moving at a high speed and by passed me, it was heading towards where I was going and I followed that route too.
When I reached some point, I heard some gunshot ahead of where I was going, and then I changed the route, I passed through the houses. But when I reached where I was going, I found a vehicle white in colour, with a smashed front window. There were no people in the vehicle.
When I was looking in my yard, I saw a person laying down on the ground. I moved close, and I asked people why they left someone without help. He was wearing a red t-shirt, black trousers, and had a headstock on.
Prosecution: How far where you?
Monde: I was near, I was near.
Prosecution: You mean you were near where the body was laying?
Monde: Almost where I was standing.
Prosecution: What where your observations?
Monde: There was blood coming out from the headstock he was wearing.
Prosecution: And what did you do?
Monde: I rushed to the main road and call the police to pick him up. When I reached the vehicle by passed me as it was fast, they asked me, what I was doing by the road side? I told them, there is someone that has been shot at my place. They asked me, where? And I pointed the place.
Prosecution: What happened?
Monde: The police left me and I started running towards the same place, when the police arrived, I also arrived.
Prosecution: Proceed
Monde: I found other police officer who was the second vehicle, I saw one police picking something on the ground near where I was standing. I was standing near the body, and it was similar to what I saw. I picked another particle, the same like the one the police picked. He came where I was and asked me what I was doing.
I told him that it was my place. They moved and got the body in the vehicle. That is how they drove off and left the place. That is how I picked the particle which I stepped on. I called people to see what I picked as it was like the one picked by police and I showed people the same particle.
Others asked me what it was, I told them that these are particles that come from the gun when someone fires it.
At that time my mother called me in the house and I left and I left it (cartridge) with Moses Sibeso and entered in the house.
Prosecution: What happened:
Monde: When I came out, I asked Moses where the item I gave him is? He said he gave it to other people who were there.
Prosecution: Which place was this?
Monde: The place it happened is Collins Sindembeâs place.
Prosecution: That will be all from this witness
Cross Examination:
Defence: Changano: Monde good morning?
Monde: Morning.
Changano: You have told this Court that you were in Kaoma?
Monde: Yes my lord.
Changano: You didnât tell the court that this statement was taken on 1st November 2021 in Mongu, is it true?
Monde: Yes
Changano: You told this court that itâs you who went to inform the police not any other person.
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Changano: Are you saying you found someone shot at on that particular day
Monde: Yes.
Changano: But at the time of shooting, you were not there.
Monde: No, I was not there.
Changano: And you donât know because you were not there, you donât know who fired the gunshot at that person?
Monde: I donât know my lord.
Changano: How many cartridges did you pick yourself from the ground and how many did the police pick?
Monde: I picked one and the police picked 2 cartridges.
Changano: Meaning, they were 3 cartridges picked at that place of the incident, not so?
Monde: Yes three.
Changano: Narrate to the court, how far was the cartridges from the body.
Monde: I am not good at measurements, but not far.
Changano: This is important, I have been trained how to fire, I want to know how far it was?
Monde: (She points to the door of the court) from that door, the next bench.
Changano: What about the police...
Monde: The other one was near the road, the one not near the body.
Changano: Where was the distance from the first cartridge, to the second cartridge and the third?
Monde: The one I picked was near the road side and the other one was near the body, and the other I stepped on it.
Changano: Now...I have spoken about the cartridge, where was the vehicle which you said was smashed?
Monde: On the road.
Changano: You agree with me that this vehicle had window screen smashed?
Monde: I saw the front screen smashed.
Changano: Was it stationary?
Monde: Yes. It was not moving.
Changano: In short it was damaged and it couldnât move.
Monde: I didnât know if it could move or not, there were no people.
Changano: Agree with me, that it was stationary it couldnât move.
Monde: It was not moving.
Changano: Did you see the people who were in the Toyota Hilux?
Monde: No, I didnât find any people.
Changano: So, you are saying that the motor vehicle which had no people was stationary and on the road?
Monde: Yes, it was on the road.
Changano: And the cartridges where they far from the stationary vehicle?
Monde: One cartridge was near the motor vehicle, the other one was there in the court yard and the other one near the body.
Changano: That is the good story, the cartridge was near a house. Did you find out how the cartridge which was near the house came there, did you find out?
Monde: I was not there for me to ask that?
Changano: I asked you to answer the question. What about the cartridge you stepped on, did you find out how it came there?
Monde: No, my lord.
Changano: The third one was near...did you find out how it came there?
Monde: No, my lord.
Changano: You told this court that you handled the other one to Moses.
Monde: Yes, my Lord.
Changano: Did you tell him to take to the police?
Monde: No, my lord.
Changano: What about the two, which you reported to the police, where are they? Are they before this court?
Monde: No, my Lord.
Changano: So, Monde you are here, you said you saw them, you donât have them so that the Court understand you, not so?
Monde: They are not before Court.
Changano: Thanks so much my lord, I live it to other counsels to proceed.
Court: Re-examination?
Prosecution: Nothing much my lord.
Court: Witness stand down.
Jonas Zimba, take the stand to cross examine Monde Nyambe.
Zimba: Witness good morning?
Monde: Morning?
Zimba: You said you lived in Kaoma.
Monze: Yes my lord.
Zimba: You should have a good understanding of Kaoma.
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: Itâs a small community.
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: You know people there not so?
Monde: Few of them my Lord.
Zimba: Do you know Kaoma Barracks?
Monde: Yes, my Lord.
Zimba: The name (Alex) Chola is very familiar, not so?
Monde: I have heard about him.
Zimba: The former soldier?
Monde: I hear so.
Zimba: In the area you said you picked a cartridge what is it known?
Monde: Site and Service my lord.
Zimba: In that area did you hear that someone came on a bike?
Monde: No, I didnât hear
Zimba: Did you inquire about him?
Monde: I didnât inquire my lord.
Zimba: If I told you that Chola was in that area, would you dispute that?
Monde: I would dispute my lord.
Zimba: Even if you didnât inquire about him?
Monde: Iiiiiiiiiii
Zimba: If I put it to you that there was a motor bike in that area would you still dispute?
Monde: I would my lord.
Zimba: If I told you that Chola was arrested and was before Court, would you dispute that?
Monde: I would not dispute that Chola arrested.
Zimba: If I told you that Chola was arrested over this matter you are before Court today, would you still dispute?
Monde: I donât know
Zimba: That is a fire answer.
My lord I stand down
Makebi Zulu takes over cross-examining Monde Nyambe.
Makebi: I have very few questions for you. Firstly, I want to thank you for being a good citizen for reporting the matter to police officers. Monde you said that day you were coming from Church and you saw a UPND vehicle coming from where you were coming from.
Monde: It was coming from where I was coming from too.
Makebi: And after it bypassed you, it turned and that is when you heard gunshots.
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: You will agree with me that it was very fast, not so?
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: Did the vehicle come back?
Monde: I didnât use the same road, I passed through houses.
Makebi: Where it turned is there a road where it can turn?
Monde: There was a road where the vehicle wasâŠ
Makebi: When you went there did you find the UPND vehicle?
Monde: I didnât find the UPND vehicle.
Makebi: When you went there, did you inquire what happened?
Monde: No, I didnât do that my Lord.
Makebi: So, you want us to believe that you did not inquire, you just called the police?
Monde: I didnât think about that my lord.
Makebi: Up to today you have not inquired?
Monde: I have not done that.
Makebi: All you did was to inform police and I am referring to picture number 8.
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: You were pointing to a place where the victim was laying, not so?
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: I will show you another picture, do you see that picture, is this the same person you found lying down and had a hand bag?
Monde: Yes, my Lord.
Makebi: This hand bad was a ladyâs hand bag, is it so?
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: Was the victim a lady?
Monde: no, my lord, he was male.
Makebi: Did you inquire what that hand bag was doing on him?
Monde: No, my lord.
Makebi: Interesting
Makebi: You saw the vehicle, not so?
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: Did you see people in the vehicle?
Monde: No, my lord. They ran away.
Makebi: Who told you that they ran away?
Monde: I didnât find people there.
Makebi: You concluded that they ran away, the vehicle was smashed and abandoned?
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: Your conclusion is that the vehicle was abandoned, ran away because they were attacked.
Monde: I was not there.
Makebi: Did you notice that one of the doors was open?
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: How many other people where you with when you were observing?
Monde: I was alone.
Makebi: So, you were alone at the scene?
Monde: I was alone at the vehicle.
Makebi: Confirm that the body was lying near your house?
Monde: It was near the road.
Makebi: The vehicle was in your court yard I mean the body.
Monde: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: How far was it from the road? You can estimate.
Monde: Not far my Lord.
Makebi: And where was the vehicle you saw?
Monde: Just at the same place.
Makebi: I want to thank you for letting police know about the incident.
Court: Re-Examination
Prosecution: No cross examination
Court: Witness you can take a sit.
Next witness takes the stand.
Prosecution: What is your name?
Muti: My name is Chinyama Muti, I am 37 years, I deal in timber lodging, I live in Lusaka in Matero.
Prosecution: In October 19, 2019, where were you?
Muti: I was in Kaoma.
Prosecution: Tell the court when you went to Kaoma and what you went to do.
Muti: I went to Kaoma in August 2019, I followed timber there. I was staying in Site and Service in Kaoma District.
Prosecution: You can then pick it up now in relation to the events of October 6, 2019.
Muti: On October 6th around 09 hours we were outside, I was with my friends, myself and with Manji and Titus and others. Whilst we were working on the machine around 11 hours, there were some campaigns going on. And we only saw a PF vehicle passing where we sat and it was going to the neighbour about 15 metres away from where we were.
I didnât pay attention about what they were doing, they didnât spend time where they had gone, they passed there again, they just moved a bit, I saw a motor vehicle parking. When the vehicle stopped, I heard 2 gunshots firing, I got surprised about what was happening. I stood on the veranda and moved near where the motor vehicle was parked.
Prosecution: What about people you were with?
Muti: I just followed alone.
Prosecution: What happened next?
Muti: I looked around I wanted to know the person who had a gun. So, where that person was its about ten metres, I looked at him carefully, when I looked at him, I started running.
I went round the house, I met him, I asked him why he was shooting like that, I asked him, âdonât you know that you can kill people in that manner?â
Prosecution: Clarify how you met this person?
Muti: He was also running; he ran towards where I was running too. He said that he was protecting the vehicle which they were damaging.
Prosecution: How far where you standing from him?
Muti: 5 metres apart. From there that is how he left and I left too.
Prosecution: Was this same person alone or with other people?
Muti: He was alone my lord.
Prosecution: When you met him and approached him what were you asking him about?
Muti: I asked him why he was firing gun shots like that.
Prosecution: How come did you tell him that he was killing people?
Muti: I told him that because at that time he had already shot at someone.
Prosecution: At what point did he shoot at that someone? How long was that after he had shot at that person?
Muti: 5 minutes
Prosecution: you told Court that he went....when âŠ
Muti: He shot him near the motor vehicle, after I talked to him, after he shot him, I just talked to him and he went, we never met again.
Prosecution: Was there any person who was shot?
Muti: Yes
Prosecution: Letâs get back to the vehicle.
Muti: Yes
Prosecution: You followed to the vehicle.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Prosecution: Apart from those gunshot did you hear other gun shots?
Muti: Yes, I heard, a voice saying kill that person telling someone to kill.
Prosecution: When you heard that statement what happened?
Muti: He killed that person.
Prosecution: ...what did you observe?
Muti: Then I heard that voice and he killed that person.
Prosecution: What did you observe?
Muti: I saw a person killed.
Prosecution: So, witness you heard that kill, and what happened thereafter?
Muti: Thereafter, it is where I ran around the house and that is where the same person ran to.
Prosecution: What happened?
Muti: I asked, why are you shooting like that.
Prosecution: Who were you asking?
Muti: The one who had a gun.
Prosecution: How far where you when you were asking him that?
Muti: Five metres.
Prosecution: What were he wearing if you were 5 meters apart?
Muti: A PF branded t-shirt.
Prosecution: What else? You mentioned a t-shirt.
Muti: A black trouser.
Prosecution: How much time did you spend talking to this person?
Muti: About 2 seconds my lord.
Prosecution: I asked if you were very sure on time.
Muti: I didnât have a watch to start looking at time my Lord.
Prosecution: What was his appearance, can you describe this person?
Muti: He is short, dark in completion.
Prosecution: You stated that you spoke to this person and he told you that he was protecting the vehicle, what happened?
Muti: He went and I went too.
Prosecution: You said there was a person who was killed, kindly state, what this person was wearing?
Muti: The person who was killed was wearing a red Man U t-shirt.
Prosecution: If there is anything you remember tell the court.
Muti: He wore a red cap, he had a UPND badge on a knee side on the trousers, and he had a UPND wrapper.
Prosecution: Is it all you can remember?
Muti: He was wearing black trousers.
Prosecution: You spoke to this person, what was he wearing?
Muti: When I talked to him after the person was killed, I left and he left.
Prosecution: What happened with this person who wore red t-shirt?
Muti: He was still there.
Prosecution: After all you observed what followed in this matter?
Muti: I went back, police officers came. When they came, they found me and they asked me if I was there when this happened and I told them that yes and they asked me what happened and I told them what happened.
Prosecution: What happened after the narration?
Muti: That is how the police left.
Prosecution: Proceed
Muti: They asked me that if we brought the person who I met would I remember him? I said yes.
Prosecution: What followed?
Muti: The police went and came back. They asked me again is I was sure I they brought this person I will be able to identify him. I said yes.
Prosecution: Proceed...
Muti: They went back gain.
Prosecution: What followed?
Muti: They came back gain for the third time, they asked me the same questions like they did last time, and I said yes. They took me to the police, I was put in the office, they got me out of the office, I didnât know where we were going, they did not tell me whether they have apprehended that person, they took me to the parade, when I looked at the parade, I realised that I am here to identify the same person. They told me now that I indeed to identify the same person and I was told not to point at any other person but the same person I saw.
Prosecution: ProceedâŠ
Muti: They gave me time to walk around and find the same person among the people who were on the parade. Even if I was going round, I knew what I was looking for. I was told to hold him. And I did that after identifying him. They removed me; they took me back. They told me that they did not believe me and I pointed the same person again, and I left. I did this for three times.
Prosecution: If you see this person you spoke to on October, 6, 2019 would you identify him?
Muti: Yes, I would. Even if I am closing my eyes, I will still identify him.
Prosecution: Would you show us in this Court if this person you spoke to on that day is around?
He identifies Shebby Chilekwa.
Prosecution: I will rest there my lord.
Cross Examination Changano
Changano: You know that you have sworn to tell the truth and no jokes?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Changano: If you tell lies and those people are convicted, they will be hanged.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Changano: Is that what you want?
Muti: What about Lawrence Banda? If he killed let him die also.
Changano: Before that day (06 October, 2019) did you ever meet Shebby Chilekwa?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano: You are good in Nyanja language (spoken) not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Changano: You are good in Bemba language (spoken) not so?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano: You told this court that you spoke to him and what language did you use?
Muti: Nyanja my lord.
Changano: You didnât say that in court.
Muti: I did not say that my lord.
Changano: Do you know that we have Nyanja interpreters and he doesnât know Nyanja?
Muti: I know Nyanja, but I am using Lozi.
Changano: The court has rules just answer that question?
Muti: I know nyanja but I speak lozi.
Changano? Are you aware that Shebby doesnât know (speak) nyanja but bemba?
Muti: No, I donât know my lord.
Changano: My client said he doesnât know anything, you said he wore a man hill (Man U) t-shirt)?
Prosecution interrupts ( the witness didnât say man hill but Manchester united)
Muti: Yes
Changano: In a statement you said he wore a Manchester United t shirt (the deceased) not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Changano: Did you know that the UPND vehicle was in the same road where you were doing the same job of repairing your machine?
Muti: There was a PF vehicle and not UPND.
Changano: So, with you, you want the court to believe that it was a PF vehicle. how many people where there?
Muti: I only saw two people in that motor vehicle, others jumped out of the vehicle.
Changano: Which party were you supporting at that time?
Muti: I went for timber I was not supporting any political party.
Changano: But for giving this statement are you one of the beneficiaries of the K5000 from Lusaka?
Muti: I canât lie because I was there.
Changano: Are you a beneficiary of a K5000 (in order) to come and tell in court (testify)?
Muti: I have not received the money.
Changano: Even if you were given you canât state in court that you were given that money. Can you tell the court?
Muti: I never collected the money.
Changano: Let me take you back to the identification parade, how many people where there together with my client?
Muti: 8 people.
Changano: And this happened at Kaoma Prison?
Muti: Yes, my lord at Kaoma Prison.
Changano: When the police called you line up the same people, did they have the same size?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano shows the witness pictures of the parade conducted in Kaoma for identification purposes.
Changano: I will take you to the other picture...he was there, do you know that person?
Muti: Shebby Chilekwa number 3.
Changano: Number three from the left, mark the third person you have mentioned. There is no rudeness, when the court says mark, you just have to mark. You have changed now; you have marked number 5.
Muti: I didnât understand the question he asked first.
Changano: I am going back to the third person again did you see the same person at the parade?
Muti: Yes, I saw the person.
Changano: Are you aware that he is still at Kaoma Prison?
Muti: I donât know my lord.
Changano: You were making jokes that even if you closed your eyes you can mark, are you aware that the person is Lozi?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano: Were you told that all seven are Lozis and one was bemba?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano: Are you aware that you went back and you told the officer that you canât pick the person because of the time since the incident happened?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano: Do you remember that the officer told you to point at a shot man from Lusaka?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano: I put it to you that the third person was not happy and he complained that you were speaking in Lozi, are you aware about it?
Muti: No, I am not aware.
Changano: Didnât you see my client lifting his hand that he was betrayed in the eyes of the police officer?
Muti: No, my lord.
Changano: You seem to have the courage of a mbunda man, you followed the man who had a gun.
Muti: I did not follow him, we just met because he was running to the same place I was running to.
Changano: What was the range where you met with him?
Muti: 5 metres apart.
Changano: What name of the pistol did you see with him?
Muti: I just saw the gun but I canât tell the name.
Changano: So, you yourself, you saw the pistol, is it before this court, do you have evidence?
Muti: I didnât get the gun.
Changano: Have you brought the gun?
Muti: I didnât. I did not get the fire arm. And itâs not before court today, if I got it from him, I could have confiscated.
Changano: The court wants to see the gun; do you have the gun?
Muti: The fire arm is not before the court today.
Changano: You mentioned about the firing, firing, firing do you have cartridges before court?
Muti: I didnât pick them.
Changano: You donât have cartridges before court.
Muti: I donât have them.
Changano: You saw the body lying on the ground and itâs in the picture, what did you see, there was no bag of a woman?
Muti: It was there my lord.
Changano: Do you know where the bag came from?
Muti: I donât know my lord.
Changano: Drink water, where you not surprised seeing a had bag?
Muti: I was surprised that the person was shot at and not the bag.
Changano: No further questions my Lord.
Jonas Zimba takes the floor to cross examine the witness Chinyama Muti.
Zimba: Witness good morning?
Muti: good morning?
Zimba: You gave a statement to police. Do you remember the year?
2019? You told police that PF were campaigning and distributing chitenge materials.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: What you saw was that the situation was calm. Not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: And they went round and they gave out their chitenge materials. Not so?
Muti: They just went to one house.
Zimba: And they were distributing the materials, not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: And what you saw was a UPND vehicle coming, not so?
Muti: It came but very far.
Zimba: I am asking you if this vehicle came.
Muti: UPND vehicle came.
Zimba: And what you saw was a UPND vehicle facing the other direction.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: And next to your house was unfinished building where UPND cadres were waiting.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: And shortly the peace and tranquillity which was being enjoyed came under threat as they started throwing stones.
Muti: From where they were they met where they were standing.
Zimba: (He explains) I am asking you to confirm or no, I am reading from your statement that you gave the police remember that.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: These UPND cadres started throwing stones at the PF who were distributing chitenge materials.
Muti: You are confusing me becauseâŠ.
Zimba: That is what you told police that UPND cadres started throwing stones at the PF.
Zimba: Among the two groups you didnât know who was UPND and PF?
Muti: I was able to identify them by what they were wearing.
Zimba: Answer yes or no. Did you identify UPND and PF?
Muti: Because of the violence people were running away.
Zimba: So, you cannot comfort that the person who fired a gunshot was PF or UPND.
Muti: He was wearing a PF t-shirt.
Zimba: Are you aware that the person who was driving the vehicle was wearing a black t-shirt, if this person that shot was wearing the white t-shirt then the person who was wearing a black t shirt is not the one who shot?
Muti: I saw the white t- shirt.
Zimba... I put it to you that if the person that shot was putting on a white t-shirt then the person who was putting on the black shirt was not the one, not so?
Muti: I pointed at the person who shot.
Zimba: What you saw is that you saw the person in white shirt shooting, and not the one in a black t-shirt, not so?
Muti: I did not see the person in black t-shirt.
Zimba: Did you hear me asking you about the person you did not see?
Muti: I pointed at the person I saw.
Zimba: You have not answered my question.
Muti: What do you want me to answer?
Zimba: Who has asked you to answer that question?
Muti: Nobody has answered.
Zimba: the same question.
Muti: (quiet...... delay,) me I did not say ...
Zimba: It is not true that the person wearing the black t-shirt shot this man
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: Do you remember that at police you told the police that the person was a bit tall?
Muti: The police misquoted me.
Zimba: Did you read through the statement you gave to the police?
Muti: No, I did not read through.
Zimba: Witness I want you to look at this statement and confirm that these are your details and the signature.
Muti: These are my details but I did not read through the details.
Zimba: Are those your details?
Muti: Yes, they are mine:
Zimba: Just confirm that the signature is yours too?
Muti: Yes, I was even shivering when signing.
Zimba: But you signed?
Muti: Yes, I signed.
Zimba: Do you read English?
Muti: I donât.
Zimba: So, you told detective inspector that you canât read.
Muti: Yes, I did.
Zimba: And he refused to listen to you and went ahead to record a statement?
Muti: He was not asking me he was just writing; he was just writing what I was saying.
Zimba: What is in this statement is what you told him?
Muti: Yes, it is.
Zimba: What is written in this statement is that you read the statement before signing.
Muti: I did not.
Zimba: And you signed.
Muti: Yes, I signed.
Zimba: And in this statement you said that the person that shot was tall.
Muti: He (police) made a mistake.
Zimba: You want the Court to believe that the officer who wrote the statement made a mistake?
Muti: Yes, he made a mistake.
Zimba: In Kaoma, where you going to church?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: Do you go to church?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: Which church?
Muti: Seventh Day Adventist Church (SDA)
Zimba: On that particular day, people where in Church and some candidates were being take around the churches, do you know that?
Muti: I donât know.
Zimba: Because you where home, not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: According to you, you have told this court that there were PF and UPND.
Muti: The motor I saw was the PF.
Zimba: No, make things easier, you have told this court that you saw the PF and UPND not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: You can only know that this motor vehicle belongs to this particular organisation if it was branded not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Zimba: And you will agree with me that on that day there was no motor vehicle branded PF.
Muti: No, my lord. No motor vehicle was branded PF.
Zimba: That is all for this witness
Makebi takes the floor to cross examine Chinyama Muti
Makebi: Chinyama âŠAre you married?
Muti: Yes, I am married to three women with 8 children.
Makebi: You are in timber logging?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: My client is a married man too and has children.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: I will take you to October 26, 2019, 20 days after.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: Your memory was still afresh, not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: If it (statement) was taken now you could have forgotten somethings
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: Your friend, Manje Siamasiku was there and he took a video, do you remember that?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: You were staying in the same house with Manje.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: You kept watching the same video time to time.
Muti: I have a video too my lord.
Makebi: Manje recorded everything on his phone, right?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: Your testimony should reflect what is in the video, not so?
Muti: I did not watch what was in the video.
Makebi: Did you listen to my question?
Muti: Repeat the question.
Makebi: The statement should be the same with this video, not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: You signed because you had fresh memory of things that happened, not so?
Muti: True, my lord.
Makebi, signed because is what you told the police.
Muti: True.
Makebi: You signed because is that happened.
Muti: True
Makebi: It is also true that you signed confirming that everything in that statement is what you said.
Muti: True, my lord, but he did not read through....
Makebi: But you wrote your name in your own handwriting.
Muti: He just told me to write.
Makebi: Your statement and that of Manji should be the same, not so?
Muti: (Manji) he has his own story and I have my own story.
Makebi: We can agree that you saw the same thing?
Muti: We can agree on where he shot.
Makebi: We can agree everything apart from where it is written shot, is that what you want?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: How did you know that the identification you gave was for Manje
Muti: âŠ..
Makebi: Chinyama Muti remember I told you that that man has a family and if he is convicted, he will be sentenced to death.
Muti: Yes, if he committed a crime. He will be convicted and sentenced to death.
Makebi: And that is what you want to happen?
Muti: Yes, if he committed the crime.
Makebi: The only part of the statement you refuse is the description.
Muti: 6
Makebi: reads the statement....
Makebi: You now remember where the hand bag came from?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: This person stole the hand bag from the PF.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: It is right to say he grabbed the hand bag.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: You can agree with me that the woman in the vehicle was hopeless.
Muti: True, my lord.
Makebi: Not even you went there to help her.
Muti: I did not help because I did not know where it started from.
Makebi: The only person who was there is the other person you would have met.
Muti: âŠ.
Makebi: She was in the vehicle when the bag was being grabbed, not so?
Muti: She was in the vehicle.
Makebi: Did any one insult?
Muti: No, my lord.
Makebi: Did you hear anyone say shoot these mother fu***rs?
Muti: No, my lord.
Makebi: In this case you will agree with me that at that particular time there was no oneself who could help the lady, you didnât know what they were fighting for.
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: If he was not shot at, he could have managed to ran away with someoneâs property, not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: The person (who was shot) wanted to grab the gun from the other man
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: It was in that struggle that the shooting happened.
Muti: They were not struggling.
Makebi: It was at that time not so?
Muti: Yes, my lord.
Makebi: If he didnât shoot that man could have grabbed the gun from him not so?
Muti: I donât know
Makebi: Itâs possible if he was not shot at, he could have managed to grab the gun. The person with the gun had no option.
Muti: He should have waited (to see if the intention was to grab the gun rather than shooting him)
Makebi: He could have waited for him to grab the gun? Can you do that?
Muti: Yes, my lord. He could have waited.
Makebi: âŠyou said the PF driver was a bit tall and slim.
Muti: The person who wrote made a mistake.
Makebi: According to you he was tall and what?
Muti: He was short and fat.
Makebi: Have you seen the picture? Who is the shortest? Number what from the left?
Muti: Number 5
Makebi: Who has a big body here?
Muti: Number 3
Makebi: ...my lord the witness says number 3 has a big body.
Makebi: What you can confirm is that he is the shortest.
Muti: Yes, my lord. He is the shortest.
Makebi: Medium height!
Muti: Second from right.
Makebi: You have changed now that they have the same height, you have now changed that the 5th person has the same height? Yes, or no?
Muti: They are of the same height. I have not changed...
Makebi: Is that the motor vehicle you saw?
Muti: Yes, it is the same motor vehicle.
(He shows him some pictures)
Makebi: You see the second page, that is the same person who was shot with the hand bag and you have told us where the hand bag came from?
Muti: Yes
Makebi: The person who was shot was the person who stole the hand bag from the vehicle.
Muti: They could have apprehended him.
Makebi: What do you call a person who steals?
Muti: A thief.
Thank you, that is so my lord.
Court: Re-examination
Prosecution: We have done my lord.
Court: Witness you can sit
Next witness
Dr. Adam Mchelengâanga, a pathologist from UTH...to be continued
Picture used for illustration purpose